[snipped the previous posts]
((Oof, it sucks when that happens.))
Because the people I’ve changed the minds of are real life people who go out and affect the world. To start, changing their minds would first require them to acknowledge the impact media and the way we interact with media has on others and society. Already, it would make them more aware of how their individual actions can feed into the greater system.
Second, they would also learn about queer erasure and in the process learn about how differences in power are important things to take into consideration (aka why straight erasure is not a thing).
So it’s more than just changing shipping attitudes.
I don’t see why it can’t be both abuse culture and queer erasure AND story interpretation. All these things go together all the time. Example, To Kill a Mockingbird is interpreted by some as a book against racism, but it is also interpreted by many Black people as a book lauding the White Savoir trope.
It’s always worth the time and effort to analyze the media we consume. How do you think cultures, beliefs, ideas, and many other things are spread? It is incredibly vital that we examine this major source from which many people tend to draw their socialization from.
Again, this is the same thing with the DirkJane point. it’s not so much about DirkJake, as it is about what DirkJake represents; the downplay and romantization of abuse culture.
((Aah sorry, I did forget about that. Not that I have a problem with you blocking me, I just thought I’d suggest that if you were interested.))
"Because the people I’ve changed the minds of are real life people who go out and affect the world."
Can you give me an example of how someone’s behaviour might change in the real world, due to changing their mind about whether DirkJane is okay or not? What behaviour would they stop or amend doing as a result? Because as far as I can see, a person’s opinion on whether or not DirkJane is okay has nothing to do with their attitude to queer erasure and everything to do with their attitude to shipping. The consequences of shipping problematic stuff are not the same as the consequences of DOING problematic stuff.
"changing their minds would first require them to acknowledge the impact media and the way we interact with media has on others and society"
It’s true that the media as a whole has a dramatic impact on society. However, I think you’re overestimating the impact that a very small part of one fandom concerned with one aspect of one particular webcomic can have on society. And we have all sorts of opinions about media that DON’T reflect our social values - for example, I can enjoy the insanity of Vriska shoving Tavros off a cliff without condoning real-life people shoving people off cliffs. In other words, if your problem is queer erasure, why not use one of the many existing real-life examples to make that point, instead of relating it to something that doesn’t really matter? Isn’t the point a thousand times more effective that way?
And I would have to guess that most people who are regulars on tumblr are probably going to come across discussions on queer erasure at some point, regardless of whether or not they get involved in these discussions. For most people, it won’t be the first or last they hear of it, so these discussions aren’t really necessary from an “awareness” point of view. .
"I don’t see why it can’t be both abuse culture and queer erasure AND story interpretation."
Because if we disagree about what is actually going on in that story’s plot, there’s no point in sitting down and arguing over whether it qualifies as abuse or not.
"To Kill a Mockingbird" is a different thing. Why? Because we might differ over the over-arching theme there (is it anti-racist or is it a white saviour thing?) but fundamentally, the details of that plot are not up for discussion. So if we argue over the book, we can really argue about racism, because we both agree that the details of the plot are what they appear to be. We don’t get "arguments about what’s going on" confused with "arguments about themes."
With Homestuck, there is real plot ambiguity and it’s been put there on purpose by an author who is intent on making us WORK to understand what’s going on. So somebody could well make a legitimate case that “respective orientations” refers to gender or they could well make a case that it doesn’t. And unless Hussie ever puts in a line of dialogue where Dirk goes “yo, changed my mind, I’m happy with people calling me gay” then you’re never going to get the definitive answer, which means you can’t really start discussing themes of queer identity based on it.
"It is incredibly vital that we examine this major source from which many people tend to draw their socialization from."
If it can be related to real life values and behaviours, then yes. Sometimes it simply can’t be related to real life values and behaviours. Sometimes real life and fiction don’t have the same moral rules. And you still haven’t given me an example of a PRACTICAL thing someone can learn about abuse from DirkJake. I mean you say “it’s romanticization of abuse culture,” but actually the situations therein are so far removed from reality that, even if it qualifies as “abuse,” it doesn’t really qualify as “abuse as we see it in our culture.”